INTERVIEW: No Need For BVAS/PVC, Lets Vote With Phones – Ex-Presidential Candidate Supporting Peter Obi Advises

Remi  Sonaiya is  a retired professor of French Language and Applied Linguistics.

In 2015, she contested for  president on the platform of KOWA Party.

Sonaiya is passionate about issues of justice, equity, and African development.

She is the author of A Trust to Earn – Reflections on Life and Leadership in Nigeria (2010); Igniting Consciousness – Nigeria and Other Riddles (2013); and Daybreak Nigeria – This Nation Must Rise! (2014).

In this interview with our Lagos correspondent, she discusses current happenings in Nigeria, political leadership in the country, the 2023 general elections and women in politics.

Excerpts:

 Nigerians Are Currently Passing Through Excruciating Pains Because Of The New Monetary Policy Of The Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN). There Are Reports That The Policy Is Intended To Prevent Vote Buying Ahead Of The 2023 General Elections. Do You Think The Redesign Of Naira Notes Is Ill-timed?

One thing first of all to make clear, we have had over the years from those who are in leadership, this attitude of making policies that will put millions of us in trouble just because they want to catch a few people. How many are the politicians compared to two hundred million people?

So, you want to catch a few politicians; you want to prevent them from using money to buy votes and so on, you put two hundred million of us through this trouble, does this seem right?

It certainly isn’t. Why do we all have to bear the brunt of a handful of criminal people. And it is because those who are supposed to catch the criminals are not doing their job. If they were doing their job properly, we wouldn’t have to be in this situation. I’m saying that apart from the timing, the whole idea of it is not a good decision.

The Spate Of Insecurity In Nigeria Currently Is Worrisome. What Would Be Your Suggestions On How This Can Be Addressed?

People have been saying that those in authority know what to do. The question is are they willing to do it? Remember the attack on Kuje prison. We were informed that there were repeated intelligence reports given to those in authority that such a thing was being planned. What happened? Nothing! No action was taken to prevent it from happening.

It just seemed as if the day  the attack was to happen, the security agents simply vanished into thin air almost, and the place was free to be attacked. We are not posing the right question when they say “what can be done to stem it?” as if it is a difficult situation.

We are not in a difficult situation. We are in a situation of bankruptcy of morality, bankruptcy of integrity in leadership, because I cannot believe that the Nigerian Army, the Nigeria Police  – that the Nigerian security agencies are incapable. I cannot believe it.

I refuse to believe that  they are incapable to stem insecurity. I am sorry to say that it is a question of unwillingness. If there is unwillingness, that is it. We have had stories. Let the government come and tell us that those stories are wrong. We have heard stories by people purportedly within security agencies saying we were asked not to go after these people, whether it is some terrorists, bandits or whatever. What does that mean? So, that is my own perspective.

I cannot believe that with all the money that is being voted into defending us, into the whole security issue, to address the security problems of the country, that we are unable to match a  handful of bandits or whatever. I don’t believe it. Yes, I know that there is terrorism all over the world , but in many countries they are getting a good hand on it. When the  terrorists see, when the bandits see that there is clear decision, clear intent to go against them, definitely I believe that things will change. Let our leaders demonstrate to us that they are truly willing; that they are ready to defend us, to ensure our security in this country.

The Presidential Elections Will Be  Coming Up In Less Than Three Weeks. What Are The Key Things Nigerian Voters Should Look Out For Before Choosing Who To Vote For?

For me, the first thing is character. What kind of people are we going to vote for? What do we know about them? We can’t have good governance with bad people. Let me just put it that way. If you have people with questionable morality, questionable sources of income, people purportedly having criminal cases hanging around their necks in different places around the world, and so on and so forth, how can we go ahead, wink at such things and say “you know they are smart, they are going to get things working and so on?”

I believe that we have accepted that politics in Nigeria does not demand good character, does not demand integrity, does not require you to be a person who does things right; who defends justice and who loves truth. It is like all those ones are irrelevant in Nigerian politics. For me, that is the crucial issue, because it is the character of the person. Is this a person who feels for the people and who will do what is right?

A person who is fair and just in their dealings with everybody, not just partial to their family, their friends, people of their religion, or their ethnic group and all of that? So, that is the most important aspect. But then of course, the competence – the ability the person is bringing. What are the challenges we have in the present world?

And what kind of individual will be able to represent us well? Will he be able to understand the issues? African leaders have been disgracing us all over the world. They go to represent their countries and you see them they have slept off during meetings. They are unable to  be alert during discussions and so on and so forth. Some don’t have the required training, some don’t have the mental capacity, some don’t have the physical capacity and so on.

So, competence, capacity, the three C’s, have been very much now in the public discourse about the coming elections . Competence, capacity, character –  these are the issues.  Let us ask ourselves questions, genuine honest questions about the candidates.

What do we know about them? There is a norm I believe that is known about each of the candidates to be able to make a decision that this one: it will be a good person to lead us. This one will not be a good person to lead us.

Among The Presidential Candidates, Who Are You Supporting And Why?

Well, it is in the public domain already anyway. If you check me out on Twitter, you will see that my tweets have been in support of Peter Obi. I mean, there is no hiding. I am not hailing him as a messiah or anything like that, but calculated, deliberate analysis of what we have.

Who are the people running? There are several others running as well who I think would be good. Unfortunately, you make your decisions based on what you really know about the people. And we happen to know a few things already about Peter Obi, because he has had the opportunity to be a governor before, and we can check his performance in Anambra (State), especially, in terms of his character.

He is not personally flamboyant. I like simplicity. I like people who will not because they are leaders live a flamboyant life. You see all these our leaders, they are always in big babariga and things like that. Even, you are going  to the office, you are wearing this flowing Agbada. What kind of work are you going to do there? I mean, that says something.

Your mind is not really focused on the work. You can’t move smartly and things like that. So, issues like that are what I take into consideration. He does not live flamboyant life like I have said. And he really has the kind of attitude of “I want to get things done.”

That was what we were told about him, when he was governor in Anambra. All the middlemen who tried to make money out of the state, maybe in the education section, or in whatever other sector, he would say no. This money supposed to go to the schools to be used by them, let’s give the money directly to the schools. He was able to get good work done as the governor of Anambra State. We didn’t hear that he was just busy issuing contracts, enriching this one, setting up people and so on and so forth.

Based on that kind of a thing, I made my decision.

Based On The Recent Judgement Of The Osun Governorship Tribunal, How Confident Are You That  The Bimodal Voter Accreditation System (BVAS) Will Guarantee Free And Fair Elections In The Forthcoming General Elections?

I will take that question more fundamentally. Personally, I am not in agreement with the amount of money that Nigeria has been voting in our budget for elections over the years. I am completely not in agreement.

It is as if it doesn’t matter whatever amount that is needed, so far we give ourselves free and fair elections. We first of all introduced card reader machine. What has become of all those card readers? Why did we spend so much money on something that will not give a kind of permanent solution? We spent huge sums of money. We are not spending that kind of money on education.

We have 20 million children out of school. We are not spending money like that for them; that’s the future of our country. We are wasting so much money just to choose a handful of leaders, when there is obviously more cheaper ways of doing these elections. This whole BVAS thing, I will not be surprised if in the next couple of years, we dump BVAS for something else.

When Nigerians vote for their candidates at BBNaija, how do they vote? Nigerians are known to be among most tech-savvy people in the world. I can say that with pride and confidence.

In my party, KOWA Party, whenever we had our primaries, KOWA Party members were able to vote. Not right from the beginning, but up until 2019, let’s say between 2015 and 2019, KOWA Party members were able to vote for the candidate they wanted to support wherever they were on the face of earth. It is just a matter of ensuring the identify of the person who is voting and giving them the opportunity to cast the vote.

So, maybe by going on the internet, or look at the possibility of even voting with our phones. We can give each of the candidates a certain number.

Vote your candidate and send the corresponding number to another number. We don’t need to be wasting so much money on elections. We need this money urgently in other places; in building infrastructure –  schools, hospitals that can really take care of us. That is the way I choose to answer that question. I don’t know why we will see simpler routes, but we will be making decisions that are expensive.

How much are those PVCs each one costing Nigeria? We have not been told. And now we see that people who are not Nigerians have been able to get those PVCs. We have seen some immigration officers or so, saying that they have arrested several non-Nigerians who have PVCs.

What does that mean? We have wasted money making PVCs for people who should not have received them. What is the PVC for? Don’t we just need a means of identification? They have asked all of us to get NIN (National Identification Number). Many have gotten it, couldn’t we have used that for voting? What is this refusal to go the simple way? Is it because that one will not involve giving contracts and things like that?

A Lot Of Nigerians Have Criticised The All Progressives Congress (APC) For Its Muslim-Muslim Presidential Ticket. What Is Your View On That?

That’s where we are right now as a people.  We still have all these very primordial sentiments. I think it is because we are not really looking at people’s performance and so on and so forth. What is still more important to us is let’s be more inclusive.

And it is true, I am not saying it is wrong. I think it is a stage that we probably need to pass through and hopefully emerge from when things settle. Where we are right now it does seems to matter.

Personally, not to me. If there are two extremely competent Muslims; people I can trust, I wouldn’t mind. If they are people that for the fact they are Muslims will not affect anything  in terms of governance – that it will only be their personal affair, it won’t affect the way they conduct the affairs of the country. But that is not what we have right now. I understand  very well the people who say they are not in agreement with that.

You Contested For President In 2015 On The Platform Of Kowa Party. What Informed Your Decision To Contest?

Because I saw that Nigeria needed good people in politics. I think we were wrong to have abandoned politics. Like I said, we seemed to have thought that politics is not a place for morality, or integrity and things like that. We basically abandoned that whole terrain to people with dubious character mostly. I am not saying everyone.

Get me right, not painting every politician black. After all, (Obafemi) Awolowo as well was a politician. Look what he did for Western Nigeria. But largely or maybe more recently, it became also the place to make stupendous money for yourself.

It still is right now actually, because when you think of the governors and their security vote; when you think of the members of the houses of assembly, and the amount of money, the percentage of our budget that goes into supporting these handful of people. I believe it was the former CBN Governor (former Emir of Kano), Lamido Sanusi, that said we were spending (what did he say then?) 20-25 percent of our budget on the National Assembly.

That’s criminal. I thought we definitely needed a change and usually I will think “What are you going to do about it as an individual?”. That’s what was laid on my mind, and I discussed with my husband and said look “I think I will leave this my university job and try to see whether one could bring some level of integrity, compassion, care for the people, service and so on”. Introduce those concepts into Nigerian politics.

Which Political Party Do You Currently Belong To?

Well, I like to say I am still a member of KOWA Party, although Kowa Party is a deregistered political party. It’s deregistered, but we are in court contesting that deregisteration.

We don’t have the final judgement on it yet, that’s why I still say I am a member of KOWA Party; that’s why I have not joined any other party. I support people. In fact in this current election, I am supporting individuals in different political parties, because I believe that for this election, we need to look at individuals. I have a very good friend who is contesting in Benue state to represent her constituency in the National Assembly (House of Representatives). I am supporting her. She is contesting under ADC.  Because I would so, so much love to see a person like her in the National Assembly.

About Five Bills On Gender Equality Failed At The National Assembly Last Year. In Your View, How Can Nigeria As A Country Mainstream Women In Politics?

I think for one thing those bills should be re- presented. They should just keep re- presenting them, until we have an assembly that will pass those bills. Because it is clear that we won’t get away without having women representation; if we don’t have legislation that will compel people.

Because the stakes are just, too, too high that people will do anything and anything to find themselves in the assembly. The benefits are huge. Only God knows what their salaries are. We keep hearing N20 million, N30 million and so on in a month.

I imagine that many of the men who are there now won’t want to yield, and many more are still wanting to go. And we cannot afford to let that happen, because as a country, we have very capable women. Nigerian women are making their mark everywhere.

Two out of three highest level international positions occupied by Nigerians, are occupied by women.  I am thinking of Amina Mohammed, as the Deputy Secretary-General of the United Nations. I am thinking of Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala of the World Trade Organisation. The third  big international position I had in mind is the president of the African Development Bank, Akin Adesina. Two out of three, those are big profile international jobs.

Two Nigerian women occupying those positions. In fact, the world is wondering about us. How can you have women doing so well and in other countries too? Look at Kimi Badenoch who is in the UK, a female working in the highest level of government in the UK.

So people are wondering, so what is stopping you from having your capable women participate in your own government at home? What is wrong with you guys? Why can’t you use the capacity you obviously have to develop your country. So, it is a fight we have to fight to the finish. We must get Nigerian women contributing, not to displace men. That’s not the idea. It is that we need competent people, and when it is all about competence, you can be sure that it won’t be all male affair. If the playing ground is level, it is merit, it is competent that is the deciding factor; even when you look at the graduation ceremonies in a lot of our universities, what do you find?

I was at the graduation ceremony of Covenant University a few weeks ago. So many prizes cleared by girls. Don’t we need such people, smart people to be in government too? Or is it only the private sector that needs smart people? So these are some of the conversations we should have with ourselves and see that we are losing out by keeping women out of the decision making processes in our country.